Interview with Raymond E. Fowler

Aliens, Abductions, and the Andreasson Affair






August 2002 by Daniel V. Boudillion






Dan Boudillion:  Ray, with 5 books on the Andreasson affair, you and your name have become inexorably linked with it.  I find it suggestive that in the end the same thread of buried contact memories may have run a parallel course through your life as well.  Are your and Betty Andreasson Luca’s experiences linked at some deeper level beyond coincidence?  If so, what do you think its all about and where do you think its all going?

   Dan Boudillion


Ray Fowler:  I don’t know. I do know that I was attracted to her case not only because Dr. Hynek referred it but also because she is a Christian. Initially I was interested in how a Christian would process an abduction experience. Also, and importantly, it was my exposure to her childhood contact and abduction experiences that once again triggered memories of similar childhood experiences and my future exploration of them. Along the way there have been a number of parallel coincidences including our receiving the typical scoop marks during the same week and told by the entities that we were going to do something important for mankind. Re the latter, other than my books and investigation reports, I have not done anything earthshaking for mankind.

   Ray Fowler


Dan:  Your research indicates that there is a definite thread of contact that runs through families and spans generations.  It s also known that psychic ability is an inherited trait.  Could this be part of the reason contact runs within in families, and certain families are chosen over others – or would you attribute it to something else?  I’d like to know your thoughts on this.


Ray:  It is hard to say. There are many who never had psychic abilities until they had a UFO experience. There are others that had psychic abilities prior to a UFO experience. Perhaps the former had a UFO experience but do not remember it. One thing is sure and that is for that or another reason (perhaps genetic research) abduction experiences run in families.


Dan:  You have stated that the Elders (the tall entities) “retain a human shape or can transform themselves into beings of light”.  What do you think the true shape of their being is, and what do they really consist of?


Ray:  I really don’t know. I have speculated that they and the so-called Watchers are able to move from what we call physical to what we call wave. Some quantum physicists are saying that matter at the subatomic level appears as both particle and wave. It only becomes particle when the mind observes it. Somehow, like Star Trek, they seem to be able to be transformed from matter to wave or wave to matter (beam me up Scotty!). It would appear that their wave existence exhibits itself as a ball of light. I think that the Elders maybe are what we eventually are going to be and exist where we are going to be. They look similar to us.




Books by Raymond E. Fowler


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  • Synchrofile [Soft] ... $30 

  • UFO Testament [Hard] ... $35

  • The Andreasson Legacy [Hard] ... $25

  • Casebook of a UFO Investigator ... $35

  • The Alagash Abductions [Soft] ... out of print

  • The Andreasson Affair [Soft] ... $25

  • The Andreasson Affair Phase Two [Soft] ... $25

  • The Melchizedek Connection [Soft] ... out of print

  • The Watchers [Soft] ... out of print

  • The Watchers II [Soft] ... $25

  • UFOs: Interplanetary Visitors [Soft] ... $35



Dan:  You state that the Watchers (the gray entities) are bio-electric robots, and that according to their own words are really another form of Homo Sapiens.  This said, I can’t help but wonder if we humans aren’t some form of bio-electric robot as well – perhaps one gone free-range?  What do you think of this idea?  Also, what are the fundamental similarities between us than them, and what are the differences?


Ray:  I really do not know. It is possible. According to what was told Betty, the Watchers are mature human fetuses that have been programmed by the Elders to carry out specified tasks in our so-called physical world.


Dan:  Betty Andreasson Luca reports in one of your books that the gray Watcher entities told her they love the human race.  I find this at odds with the predominance of reports that reflect that these beings are incapable of any emotions at all.  Indeed, this is often reported as one of the most frightening traits of the entities.  What are your views on this?


Ray:  Perhaps love for them translates into concern for our well being. Imagine that a military aircraft carrying germ warfare canisters makes a crash landing on a remote island inhabited by primitive people. Some of the canisters break open and there is a medical threat to these people. Concurrent with a rescue, military medical personnel fly to the island from an aircraft carrier. Can you imagine the fear on the part of the natives when white-suited masked entities forcefully round them up and force them to be vaccinated with steel needles. Some are flown to the aircraft carrier’s hospital and are subjected to other instruments. I’m sure that after it was all over the natives would look back in horror at what had taken place. They would not realize our great humanitarian concern for their health and the danger of their spreading the diseases generated by the germ warfare canisters. As far as they were concerned, a huge bird-like thing fell from the sky followed by devils or spirits arriving in bird-like things that in turn captured them and stuck them with needles, etc. before leaving. Perhaps this is analogous to what is going on re the abduction phenomenon. Remember that the Watchers told Betty that "mankind was going to become sterile" and that there seems to be a symbiotic connection between them and us. Perhaps their survival depends upon our survival. I will discuss this further in question 8.


Dan:  Are we narrowing ourselves by conceptualizing UFOs as simply physical objects?  John Keel went so far as to speculate that the UFO objects were actual beings themselves.  What do you think of this?  What’s your opinion?


Ray:  Most certainly. Even some radar/visual sightings indicated that UFOs materialize and dematerialize. Radar might pick up a hard return from a UFO seen at point A. Then, the UFO seems to pop out of view and pop in view again at point B with no visual or radar-detected flight path observed between A and B. Also, UFOs may not be constructed of living tissue but might be a highly advanced representation of artificial intelligence that is able change its function and shape and be operated via the intelligent minds of its operators.


Dan:  In The Andreasson Legacy, you referred to UFOs as “technology wed to spirit” – maybe spirit is the technology?  If this is even partially true, how should we refocus our approach to UFOs in general and investigations in specific?

Ray:  In question 3 I indicated that matter at the subatomic level may not exist as particle unless it is observed by mind. There are reports that some persons have the ability to affect so-called physical objects by their minds. In question 6 I speculated that UFOs may be operated in this way. I have read reports that our government is experimenting with this prospect in a very rudimentary way for fighter pilots. Betty was told that their technology was wed to spirit. This is what may have been meant. I do not know how this could cause us to refocus our approach to UFOs and investigations other to surmise that our thoughts can be monitored by the UFO entities and that it is possible that some of us who are investigating are being monitored by what/who we are investigating as part of a study or perhaps a conditioning process.


Dan:  If the beings and objects are indeed para-physical, what unseen world or dimension are they from, and how do we take this aspect into account when conducting our investigations, Ray?


Ray:  I point out in The Watchers II that some Near Death Experiences and UFO abductions experiences would be hard to tell apart. Dr. Kenneth Ring states that some persons that have had an NDE report being in a craft in outer space and being confronted with similar entities to the robed human-like Elders. Similar entities are reported in normal NDES and in ancient and modern so-called religious experiences. This being the case, one could speculate that UFOs and the entities that operate them come from that same domain/dimension that persons having a NDE experience enter and return from. In The Andreasson Legacy I speculate that human beings are a larval form of the so-called Elders and we, like a herd of cattle are being cared for and maintained until we die and enter the reality in which they dwell. This might be analogous to dragonflies in the world of air warning and operating upon their larval forms in a world of contaminated water in order to secure their own survival. Probably a bit more complicated than that but basically no larvae = no dragonflies.


Dan:  Specifically, how do we test for the para-physical?  Do we need to develop new tools or new attitudes?  I would appreciate your advice in the matter.


Ray:  I have not idea how to test for the paraphysical. We are limited to measuring the size, shape, weight, speed and various effects upon humans, animals, and environment of UFOs that manifest themselves in a physical form.  However, our attitude should be that of having an open mind to cases that involve reported paraphysical phenomena.


Dan:  Reading in the May 2002 issue of the national MUFON UFO  Journal, author and investigator Barry Downing states: “When we are doing UFO and alien research, we are facing some kind of power.  A big power.”  I’d like your comments on this statement.


Ray:  Barry Downing equates "A big power" with the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition.


Dan:  There is an evolutionary trend over the course of your books from a nuts and bolts perspective to a willingness to entertain paranormal aspects of the phenomena.  How did this come about?  Was there any one pivotal event that brought about this change of perspective?


Ray:  At one time, I was a fundamentalist Christian but since have expanded my theology. I had dismissed anything paranormal experienced by myself or my family as being Satanic. In my early days as a UFO investigator, I rejected any UFO report that contained any type of psychic phenomena. I also felt that UFO witnesses who reported such were mentally unstable. However, it became apparent that credible persons were reporting incredible things that were similar to what my family, especially my father, had and were experiencing. My mind and theology gradually broadened to accept the paranormal aspects of the UFO phenomena. I might add that when I did this, I began to experience such phenomena on a more regular basis. There was one event which, although not pivotal that affected me greatly. During the week that Betty and I both received the typical "scoop marks", I believe that I saw myself in the future. I entered the half cellar one-day and saw a ghostly figure with a white shirt and black dress pants come out from behind the furnace and walk toward the cellar stairs. I could not see the face and thought that I must be seeing a ghost. It was only later that one day, getting ready for a wedding that I dressed in a white dress shirt and black trousers and went behind the furnace to get something from the freezer and took exactly the same path as the entity did that I suddenly realized that I had seen myself. This same phenomenon has also happened on another occasion but the two events took place only minutes apart. These events plus others have made me think that time really does not exist and that all that we have done is still occurring and what we are going to do is already happening although what we do now might be altering it as we move along experiencing what we call time in a sequenced manner. This is perhaps why the Watchers told Betty that are time is "localized".


Dan:  You are currently writing your 10th book.  What will this one be about?  We would like to get an idea of where your current investigations are taking you.


Ray:  My last book is sort of a "tell-all" autobiography of my investigations and experiences. Hopefully it is written in such a way that it will help those who are going through abduction experiences and assist researchers in understanding and investigating such experiences.  [See UFO Testament: Anatomy of an Abductee]


Dan:  What is the most important message or insight you’d like to pass on after a lifetime of UFO research?


Ray:  That UFOs, NDEs and so-called psychic phenomena are individual expressions of an all encompassing metaphenomenon that is generated from another reality into our world, which is but a shadowy reflection of that other reality.


Dan:  What single most valuable piece of advise would you most like to pass on to new MUFON Field Investigators?


Ray:  UFO investigators should to their utmost to be totally objective and not reject out of hand the high strangeness aspects of the UFO phenomenon that do not reflect the prejudices of one’s personal belief system.


Dan:  Ray, I appreciate your taking the time for this interview – its been an honor.  Here is one last question:  After almost 40 years studying and investigating the UFO phenomena, why do they still interest you?


Ray:  Attempting to solve the UFO mystery has continued to expand my concepts of reality especially after discovering that I have been and continue to be part and parcel of the mystery itself. I love a mystery!


A final comment from Ray:


I'm afraid that most strictly nut and bolt oriented researchers will reject much of what I said out of hand.  I certainly would have done so earlier in my life.  Also, I would like to get any comments from readers if possible.  (Please see below for Ray's email address.)

   About Ray Fowler



General: Raymond E. Fowler was born in Salem, Massachusetts and received a B.A. degree (magna cum laude) from Gordon College of Liberal Arts. His career included a tour with the USAF Security Service and twenty-five years with GTE Government Systems as a Senior Planner for the Minuteman Intercontinental Missile Program. Ray directs his own planetarium and observatory and teaches courses on Astronomy and UFOs at North Shore Community College.


Credentials: Ray Fowler's contributions to UFOlogy are respected by UFO researchers throughout the world. Reports of his UFO investigations have been published in: Congressional Hearings on UFOs, military publications, newspapers, magazines and professional journals in the USA and abroad. Astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Chief Scientific Consultant for the USAF UFO Projects called Raymond Fowler. "An outstanding UFO investigator   ... I know of no one who is more dedicated, trustworthy or persevering." Ray has served as an early warning coordinator for the USAF-contracted Colorado University UFO Study and as the Director of Investigations for the International Mutual UFO Network [MUFON].


TV/Radio Appearances: Ray has been a guest on hundreds of radio and TV shows in the U.S.A. since 1963 including: Dave Garroway, Dick Cavett, Mike Douglas, Good Morning America, Unsolved Mysteries, Sightings, and has been a consultant to TV UFO Documentaries and Time-Life Books.


Author: Ray has had 11 books on UFOs published in the USA between 1974 and 2004. Many of them have also been reprinted in foreign languages.  He is currently working on his lastest book on UFOs.  


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Copyright © August 2002 by Daniel V. Boudillion & Raymond Fowler